tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1229618075021986600.post5789127074672620403..comments2024-02-07T22:21:28.079+11:00Comments on Creations of AmstradHero: Meaningful FreedomAmstradHerohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02313267316109911061noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1229618075021986600.post-68377774603263884672010-08-04T23:32:02.519+10:002010-08-04T23:32:02.519+10:00I wouldn't say its a contradictory comment - a...I wouldn't say its a contradictory comment - and it seems as though you've conflated Wyrin's suggestion re stressed urgency with Starwars' comment re freedom and consequence.<br /><br />People say Baldur's Gate had freedom, which it did to a degree, but the issue is that none of the non-linearity had any affect on the main quest line. The freedom was all in the "side quests", a number of which were quite lengthy because they were "required" in order to make money to progress the main plot. That said, they still had no effect on the main plot itself.<br /><br />I think the issue is that if we're going to be provided non-linearity in the main-quest lines of the game, then there ought to be a point to that non-linearity. If each segment plays out exactly the same regardless of the order you perform them in, why bother having that choice in the first place?AmstradHerohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02313267316109911061noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1229618075021986600.post-64440166297148318112010-08-04T15:02:35.226+10:002010-08-04T15:02:35.226+10:00"I've always found the Baldurs Gates to b..."I've always found the Baldurs Gates to be a bit overrated as well. Don't get me wrong, I like them. But it always nagged me about how people will talk about the freedom and all that... And yet, how many real choices with consequences are there for you to make in the game?"<br /><br /><br />This comment is completely contradictory. If the quests all had "real consequences" then how is that freedom? Feeling obliged to do a quest here and now because something bad might happen is compulsion. You can't knock something for one thing and say it lacks the same thing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1229618075021986600.post-59387277483945218282010-08-04T04:26:35.706+10:002010-08-04T04:26:35.706+10:00I think you're spot-on with the last few sente...I think you're spot-on with the last few sentences. I consider non-linearity to be a great thing myself but it often comes down to "choose which order to do quests in". To fully take advantage of it, things should be connected (not everything, but a lot of it) so that every quest is not done in a vacuum. This will be taxing on the developer but as a consumer, it's something I really want.<br />It's also a reason why I've always found the Baldurs Gates to be a bit overrated as well. Don't get me wrong, I like them. But it always nagged me about how people will talk about the freedom and all that... And yet, how many real choices with consequences are there for you to make in the game? Same with Oblivion. Brand-open world, but nothing you do in it matters and gets back to you in a meaningful way.<br /><br />I've mentioned it before on this blog but I think, again, Alpha Protocol handles this in an interesting way. It's rather different due to its mission-based setup, and each hub still has a order of events that you go through until the end. <br />But your choice of which hub you do first can unlock things in other hubs later on. If you're nice to Steven Heck, he can help you in Moscow against Brayko. If you spare Brayko (and get some influence with him) he can call his thugs off your back in a mission in Rome. It's not perfect but I think Alpha Protocol took a rather large step forward in terms of providing choice and reactivity within the context of story-driven games. Too bad that contribution gets overlooked (or praised when a more popular developer does it in the future).<br /><br />That said, I think if you're making a story-lite game then that non-linearity can be desirable. For a game such as Storm of Zehir, I think it makes all the sense in the world for the gameworld to be largely open. Hell, in Fallout 1 you could (technically, but would never happen) march straight to the endgame locations I believe. I *love* that type of freedom where the game doesn't place bars around you, but it's for a different type of game.Starwarsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1229618075021986600.post-15935467575003928922010-08-04T00:58:04.959+10:002010-08-04T00:58:04.959+10:00Non-linearity is overhyped, and when present, ofte...Non-linearity is overhyped, and when present, often a fallacy. I'm still travelling from A to B regardless of the different scenery and non-plot-related grindfest hack and slash I choose to do en route. So I agree, non-linearity in terms of 'choose which order you eat breakfast, lunch and dinner, before finally getting to the main plot' is not as real and satisfying as 'consequences for actions' non-linearity.<br /><br />But it is also dependant on how much players replay a game - something I'm not sure what the stats are on what percentage of players are likely to play somethign like Dragon Age more than once, and to what level designers rate replayability (of cRPGs in particular) as an important selling point.<br /><br />My favorite cRPGs all have the common factor - that I find it difficult to enjoy replaying them, and lose the marvel that I had in my first play through of a tightly written, engrossing, story driven plot. Redoing it to see 10% new content, when 90% is the same holds little appeal to me. I'm guessing companies figure they will alienate players if they find out that a choice to do quests in a certain order may mean that they can't play the hero and save the day in another quest. So you'd have to stress any time-urgent quests in the game, otherwise players have little to go on in terms of understanding the consequences of saving a mage polymorphed into a chicken instead of clearing out the kobold-infested mines destroying iron trade in the region. But, once you stress that time-dependancy, how many players choose to ignore it..?Wyrinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11584859518433388278noreply@blogger.com